And this is WAY off topic, but I just re-watched The Godfather tonight, and Andrew, I know you like it, but aren’t as impressed by it as most people, so I have two questions:
1) How many times have you seen it?
2) How long has it been since you’ve seen it?

I’ve always felt it was a masterpiece and one of the best films I’ve ever seen, but watching it again… well, it’s the absolute pinnacle of filmmaking. I just can’t see an argument for any other stance.

There is a lot to love about Denzil Washington when he teeters between his usual charismatic and unstable. These are more of the kind of roles I’d like to see him in. but I confess to finding Russel Crowe’s plot thread the more interesting of the two. Even if Crowe’s performance is curiously detached for most of the running time.

In typical Ridley Scott fashion (post sci-fi phase anyway), it’s solid story telling, solid talent, but it ain’t no classic by a long stretch and not nearly as good as Gone Baby Gone.

FYI, I’m having a real hard time with my American Gangster review. I’ve written it, but it doesn’t say much on whether I liked the film or not and the reason is, I can’t decide.

It’s got a lot of positives, but there’s something about it that just doesn’t work. If I can venture a guess, I would say Kurt LOved it, but I haven’t talked to him about it yet. We’ll get to that on the show this week though.

1) The acting by Casey Affleck. If he doesn’t get the best actor nod for either this or Jesse James I’m going to be really ticked off.

2) There are very few movies that sit in my mind because of an emotional impact. This is one of them. Pretty much the whole night I was sitting watching movies at Toronto After Dark my thoughts were still with GBG.

3) There are also very few movies where I can’t a) figure out the twist way before or at least b) see that there is a twist coming. I was going to be happy with what I thought was a more simple solution at the end.

These are the main reasons that I really enjoyed and conside GBG one of the best movies of the year. Then when you add on the grittiness and real feeling of the run down city plus the ending shot (like Kurt said) I can’t help but love the movie.

I’ve been thinking of comparisons between GBG and American Gangster and I really think that American Gangster for all its praise really is only about half the movie that GBG is but I’m going to save real discussion of that for my podcast. I am waiting though to read/hear what Andrew and Kurt thought about American Gangster.

that emotional response theme is interesting because Affleck and Monaghan kind of switch back and forth throughout the movie. When they initial ly take the case its Affleck who feels its something he just needs to do, and Monaghan is the one who is stepping back and wanting to think about it.

It’s been real fun. I hope our little cinecasts get these types of lively debates going more often. And Goon, since you live just up the street from me, I’ll extend the same invitation as I did to Jay Cheel. I go to the movies at 10pm every Sunday night (except last Sunday where I watched Duck You Sucker instead), I’m going to start putting out an email in advance on what film I’m going to go see. You are more than welcome to join any time.

Cheers.

you know, i never got to see the Sixth Sense free from the knowledge of the ending, it was spoiled for me by Ebert of all people during the Oscar Preview, bastard, so I tended to watch it appreciating some of the things along the way. you could be right. I dont know.

“And besides, the trick ending is almost besides the point (for me anyway)…for me it all comes back to the moral quandries raised in American Society, and in particular urban neighborhoods and the social ills that create a house of cards which can too easily topple by A) someone doing the wrong thing and (more interestingly) B) Someone doing the RIGHT thing.”

I can see your point, and I wish I could focus only on that - like i said, by the final shot I was able to get back to that focus in the story - however I just think if the storytelling had been tighter I wouldnt have had to struggle to find my footing with the message again.

I dont think anything could change my opinion though about Freeman and Affleck’s showdown. Casey’s burst was a little too wordy heartfelt and sounded like a prepared statement. I mean when he was explaining his responsibility to the child, I got a recall of Homer Simpsons rant “…and when you watch your friend turn into a pile of Goo!, you’ll understand! forget it Marge, its Chinatown!”

To me what you think of Freeman/Affleck’s showdown I already got out of Harris/Affleck’s showdown after Ashton’s character died. Even though Harris was involved in the plot, he put out essentially the same message. I actually even there got a recall from of all movies - Hot Fuzz…
“THE GREATER GOOD”

Anyways, on a less argumentative note, whats your favorite shot in the film? Immediately I think of Monaghan jumping into the water against all that black (some nice symbolism there too). When I think of this movie, I think of that shot first more than anything. A friend of mine who saw it with me (also a listener of the show) found Monaghans character to be somewhat useless, and I agree to an extent, but she really is a counterpoint or alternate reality of Affleck’s take on things - more obviously in the ending, but in that scene of her jumping into the black, it really states the lengths she was willing to go vs him carefully standing back examining the situation… the emotional response vs more clinical rational thinking… that sort of morality play symbolism speaks to me more than the outwardly spoken confrontation.

Even in this case, the structure (disjointed, muddy) is perfectly in line with the substance, and that makes things even better. This’ll easily be on an end-of-year-list for me.

Kurt is right on this point:
“the trick ending is almost besides the point (for me anyway)…for me it all comes back to the moral quandries raised in American Society, and … someone doing the wrong thing and (more interestingly) someone doing the RIGHT thing.”

This is why I liked the movie as much as I did. Without this, the film would’ve been a complete failure.

Had no problem there, but I can see your point.

I’ll reiterate that the ending didn’t feel like the travesty, cheap trick of THE SIXTH SENSE. And besides, the trick ending is almost besides the point (for me anyway)…for me it all comes back to the moral quandries raised in American Society, and in particular urban neighborhoods and the social ills that create a house of cards which can too easily topple by A) someone doing the wrong thing and (more interestingly) B) Someone doing the RIGHT thing.

That is what makes this movie sing for me! And the crux of this lies in the encounter between Morgan Freeman’s character and Casey Afflecks with the supporing roles (Amy Adams, Titus Welliver, Ed Harris, et. al) orbiting (or rather caught in the vortex.

This is what cinema is capable, and the immediacy, and intense emotional response makes this particular story (likely) more amenable to a movie than a novel (no insult to Dennis Lehane, I’ve not read the book).

But really, the Freeman scene really irked me. Besides the flashbacks, I simply don’t believe Morgan Freeman’s character would do this, for various reasons.

1) we were just getting over Ed Harris’ involvement before they move on to this other massive flashback moment of reveals. too much at once.
2) Freemans character hints at why he’d do such a thing early on in the film, but that was all you really got from that character at all. His lines there were delivered with such static-ness that it was like he was reading them off of cue cards. I’d say the same about his final speech. I think it made me realize - Damn I think I don’t like Morgan Freeman anymore - he was coasting, it didnt have any soul or depth to it, it was relying on his Morgan Freeman-ness to carry the scene and it wasnt enough. Someone with a darker edge who would clearly be seen to think he was doing the right thing might have been a better casting choice, at least to me. I really really think Freeman himself botched his end.
3) on to Lehane’s writing. Perhaps the novel makes it more clear, but the way its depicted in the movie, I simply dont believe Harris and Freeman hatched that plot, that they had that level of contingency plan, yet were too stupid to think of how they could raise a kidnapped child and keep it secret. I just don’t see it happening. I’m sure there are people out there who probably do such a thing, but these are cops who are supposed to be a little smarter than that. Smart enough to pull off the kidnapping and know it would cost Freeman half his pension and his job, but not enough to think ahead to how the kid will grow up there. I mean, jeez, if Freeman is giving up his career and pension for this kid, I need a whole lot more than a couple flashbacks at the end - that character needed way more development before he was canned earlier in the film. It felt like they didnt do it for the sake of the element of surprise later and I didnt appreciate it.

*** MINOR SPOILER ***

I really liked the back and forth debate between Freeman and Affleck. I thought it was believable enough although I can see why you didn’t.

What bugged me (which was the problem with the other Affleck movie out right now) was that it went on for too long. The film should’ve ended WITHOUT us finding out what Affleck’s decision was. It would’ve been so much stronger and given us so much more to think and talk about. I realize that’s not an audience friendly decision, but take some chances!

Plus, as I said in the show, the flow of the movie is very rocky and bumpy, it isn’t smooth at all; which is fine for some films - but it didn’t work all that well for GBG and it slapped me back into reality. When a movie hits me in the face and reminds me I’m in a theater and have to check my watch, it loses me.

Still, liked the film quite a bit.

saw Gone Baby Gone, it has some amazing moments, but ultimately I think it was quite flawed. I liked the very end, but I didnt like where it ended up with Morgan Freeman. it seemed to blow much of the believability and authenticity it had spent so long building up. I mean Ed Harris’ part in the conspiracy was stretching it alone, but Freeman was too much. that i can blame on Lehane’s content.

THe constant flashbacks beating me over the head about how it came to pass, I blame on Affleck.

its too bad, because otherwise this was a very memorable movie with more great scenes than the majority of movies I’ll see this year.

Anyway, it was also really cool to see such a well loved movie up on the big screen again (It had been 10 years since last time I caught Nightmare in the cinema). Seeing things on such a clean print on a massive screen made me appreciated the film even more. One think in particular that I don’t think I ever noticed before was that the ghostly dog “Zero” whose nose glows for a key Christmas-y moment in the film, well on the big screen you could actually tell his nose was a glowing jack ‘o lantern, not just an orangey-red glow. Nice. There were several others like this, I particuarly reveled in the detail in Ooogey-Boogey’s lair.